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Post by Nat on Jul 2, 2015 2:17:58 GMT
@ kimoshu. As for the war-hulk, making them cheaper won't change a thing. They were never that useful. Why do you think? Walls are useless. You can get over a wall in 1 sec. I got nothing against how easy it was to jump across a wall, i'm just saying that warhulks were useless for that reason. You need to take down city walls to siege lol.... Your theorycrafting is great to read and all - but you seem to have a pretty scant knowwledge of the game mechanics. Sorry but it has to be pointed out. To be fair, it's easy to forget about some of the finer details of the game as it's quite old now, and the siege system was changed so much even I don't remember it all.
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Post by bloodymurderer on Jul 2, 2015 2:39:05 GMT
@ kimoshu. As for the war-hulk, making them cheaper won't change a thing. They were never that useful. Why do you think? Walls are useless. You can get over a wall in 1 sec. I got nothing against how easy it was to jump across a wall, i'm just saying that warhulks were useless for that reason. You need to take down city walls to siege lol.... Your theorycrafting is great to read and all - but you seem to have a pretty scant knowwledge of the game mechanics. Sorry but it has to be pointed out. First of all, how can i not theorycraft when i can't play currently? Anyway... I was involved in a lot of sieges and we never once had a problem with the ops just to take down some walls while most of them are offline. the difference is, we are prepared to take down walls while the ops is never as prepared to defend them. So why do we need a warhulk again? I always believed that the whole siege system was super flawed anyway and yet, very fun only when it's time to fight. The point is, you're supposed to defend the warhulk while the user shoots at the walls and spray fire at the enemy; kinda like how you must defend your siege units when you play a strategy game. At-least that's how it's supposed to be on paper, but in reality, it was nothing like that because walls were next to useless; only good as a way to hear the enemy coming since you can hear them coming with launch, wof or levitation if you don't always take notice of the text-system.
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Post by zaffahex on Jul 2, 2015 2:52:02 GMT
You need to take down city walls to siege lol.... Your theorycrafting is great to read and all - but you seem to have a pretty scant knowwledge of the game mechanics. Sorry but it has to be pointed out. To be fair, it's easy to forget about some of the finer details of the game as it's quite old now, and the siege system was changed so much even I don't remember it all. Its easy to forget the finer detail. Although I think a central siege mechanic is not finer detail. But if you are single minded enough to thrust suggestions on how to change the game you neef to be aware of all the exusting mechanics to see the full impact of your suggestions... I also have ideas on how to improve yhe game from my own perspective. But I am happy to just recreate DF - warts and all. I was under the impression that was the aim here. Since AV announcements there seems to be a new vibe here to re-write the game. I find it pretty alarming tbh... Even talk of adding UW mechanics and so on. Anyway I dont want to argue on this forum...Ill check back next time there is a progress announcement.
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Post by zaffahex on Jul 2, 2015 2:59:37 GMT
I always believed that the whole siege system was super flawed anyway and yet, very fun only when it's time to fight. What did you like?! Seems you had issues with almost all the game mechanics. You realise how risky it would be to change everything and hope your/our new fixes are better than the original? Im out...
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Post by bloodymurderer on Jul 2, 2015 3:01:29 GMT
I always believed that the whole siege system was super flawed anyway and yet, very fun only when it's time to fight. What did you like?! Seems you had issues with almost all the game mechanics. You realise how risky it would be to change everything and hope your/our new fixes are better than the original? Im out... I never asked for a change. I'm just trying to show kimoshu the reality.
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Post by kubalay on Jul 2, 2015 21:11:26 GMT
Hey guys, it's me King Kubalay / Xen Cobra / Girit etc xD. Awesome to see DFO is coming back! Also hi Kimoshu long time no see! Add me on steam so we can all stay in contact steamcommunity.com/id/Girit/
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Post by haykand on Jul 3, 2015 10:46:55 GMT
From the DFUW forum: Skilling has, IMO, mainly two purposes: 1) Keeping people online/in game (in some form or another) 2) Rewarding people for spending time in the game= giving you the sense that, just like in life, you suffer, work out, study and you reap your reward Both kill-to-skill and prowess are, in some ways, grinding and do not necessarily make sense from a logical/lore point of view, however they do keep people in game for some time; on the other side, once you have skilled up, you do not need to grind any more...so what to do? No grind/short grind? But then, on the long term, there are less situations to find enemies Long/endless grind? you risk to bore people to death or lose people that simply do not have the time nor the patience to invest days/weeks/months in skilling, especially if they know they cannot be competitive for a few months to come. Maybe a new system, where skilling is faster, but, on the other side (just like in sport IRL), you "soften up" if you do not meet your quota per week (work out/train), might be the answer; the "softening" (idleness) would "eat back" some of your skills, probably at an increasing rate, if you went idle for days and weeks... This way the grind is, at the same time, not endless (in order to reach a decent level), but still forces players to go out and kill that mob or gather that stuff, or achieve that weekly quest...this would allow people to be competitive faster, avoid the cast system where "uber characters" sit on their glory and avoid any risk other than pvp of their choice, and would force people out of their cosy home/city. Does it make any sense? Regards HayKand Yes it makes sense . Skill decay was actually up for talks originally, and as far as I remember, it was supposed to be a part of DFO from the very start, though just like many other things it never happened, sadly. Thank you for considering this; other very important thing is to keep in mind that you need not only the 24/7 basement dwelling kid, or semi no lifer, but also the average player that still loves this game while unable or unwilling to (or maybe his g/f wife do not allow him) play 24/7...and if they cannot participate to the core events of this game (i.e. the defensive sieges), they will be either worn out or put off. Please consider at least 48 hours notice for sieges and only in prime time (6-11pm), no one wants to see his city gone to some early morning troll or gone without notice if you did not log on for a day. Please do not listen to the "this is a sandbox" kids, they do not represent the majority of potential players. Regards HayKand
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Post by kimoshu on Jul 3, 2015 15:14:25 GMT
I have included changes to Sieges in our design doc. They include a "siege window" when clans can be sieged to prevent 24hr panic mode required for your holdings. The document is looking fairly good now I worked on it last night a bunch. Ideas are mostly fleshed out but I still need to organize it into Immediate, near future and long term ideas.
-Andrew
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Post by eliporter on Jul 4, 2015 4:31:24 GMT
Macroing and bloodwalls are what i liked most about DFO. It keeps people online which is important. Even if the people are afk, that is some kind of interaction at least. It encourages duels and going to mob spawns to train up weapon and magic skills. You can raid a city in the middle of the night with small group and make it out of there with max carrying capacity of regs while also clearing out the macroers. When someone loses 500 each reg they think twice about doing it again unattended. Anyone remember all those afk swimmers under bridges in Gulghat? Even easy kills are rewarding. Problem with prowess i found was you have to have a respec option and original DF had no option so i think it is fine as is. As long as the skill up is where it was by the end something like X10 skill ups. Nostalgia can't count as good game design. Purposefully putting bloodwalls and macroing back in the game would be suicidal. Do you ever remember when some of the LOD higher ups got caught macroing on some random pillar on Carin? It took a group of Black Shields like a hour to wof/stormblast and climb this pillar. Like 10 something Lod were macroing up top with full dragon,infernal and like 100k of each reg and shit. I still remember the forum post lol.
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Pman
Members
Posts: 53
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Post by Pman on Jul 4, 2015 6:49:21 GMT
Please do not listen to the "this is a sandbox" kids, they do not represent the majority of potential players. Regards HayKand You neither represent the majority of DFO playerbase. You just want DF1 to be a quake pvp arena like some fraggers, the ones left to play DF1 before the closure. Darkfall should become a true sandbox, the original vision of Razorwax like Ultima Online, the dream of Claus. It will not be enought to keep the game alive if you kick out lots of pvpers that don't like learn everything and be force to be a battlemage oneway build. Hope kimoshu don't listen to people like you and the game will be doomed again. Game should lure in indeed old players but new players too, to cover the development and infratructure costs. As Kimoshu said, adding more specializations with trade off is the answer, so people can specialize in their preferred build and be good only in these skills at the expense of others (destro had magic school blocked). This is the only way to lure more people and have a healthy population again. Is a necessary compromise toward the sandbox way. ps: skill cap was a huge requested feature along with grind reduction since 2009 launch, but Av refuse and all the people who bought DF1 leaved and only a bunch of fraggers left, not enought to keep the expensive servers and pay the devs, for this reason the game was closed down and the shitty UW developed. UW was made to fix these issues in the first place but fucked up all the rest.
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