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Post by edarsurefoot on Jul 17, 2015 22:00:31 GMT
Kimoshu should really take his project off this forum as its confusing a lot of people coming here.
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Post by haykand on Jul 18, 2015 9:47:37 GMT
Arguably, removing bunnyhop mechanic would actually lower the skill ceiling, which is not something that Darkfall wants to do - that's what Unholy War excels at. A really "smart" way to put it, how about something even more vague and loaded: "Arguably, removing bunnyhop mechanic would actually avoid thousands of players being happy and would utterly kill the game"? Back to discussing this topic more seriously: death by fall damage would mess up the hyper fast pvp that is essential part of DFO, as you would end up dying by being blasted in the air, so I do not think it should be considered as an option to nerf BH. What other ways are there? You should either leave it as it is (with all the issues of making mounts and ships next to redundant that we have already highlighted and the naked jumping from nowhere and disappearing "road runner skill" available), make mounts as fast as rockets, or slow BH mechanics. Regards HayKand
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Pman
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Post by Pman on Jul 18, 2015 11:52:05 GMT
Don't worry, right now that's exactly what the emu plans to do. Kimoshu and his team might have a different plan for their project though, I don't know. yea, you guys that like original Darkfall stick with the emu while Kimishu can change and tweak it to sustain a more large playerbase. EMU -> vanilla Darkfall like in 2009 launch Official release -> tweaked and updated Darkfall to accomodate more playstyle and players, more a sandbox game like UO Kimishu should open an official website and a forum, here is the home of the emulator that have nothing to do with an official release.
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Post by Nat on Jul 18, 2015 12:06:09 GMT
Don't worry, right now that's exactly what the emu plans to do. Kimoshu and his team might have a different plan for their project though, I don't know. yea, you guys that like original Darkfall stick with the emu while Kimishu can change and tweak it to sustain a more large playerbase. EMU -> vanilla Darkfall like in 2009 launch Official release -> tweaked and updated Darkfall to accomodate more playstyle and players, more a sandbox game like UO Kimishu should open an official website and a forum, here is the home of the emulator that have nothing to do with an official release. Well not quite. We're going to emulate 2012 Darkfall, as that's the version we have. Skill gains are just a tweak on an XML file. Then once that's done, if it's done as that's still a lot of server code, then we'll develop from there. We just consider it extremely important to release the game as it was. Too many peoples opinions and their personal visions will dilute the game if it's changed before people get a chance to sink their teeth in.
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Post by kaerion on Jul 21, 2015 21:32:12 GMT
Don't worry, right now that's exactly what the emu plans to do. Kimoshu and his team might have a different plan for their project though, I don't know. yea, you guys that like original Darkfall stick with the emu while Kimishu can change and tweak it to sustain a more large playerbase. EMU -> vanilla Darkfall like in 2009 launch Official release -> tweaked and updated Darkfall to accomodate more playstyle and players, more a sandbox game like UO Kimishu should open an official website and a forum, here is the home of the emulator that have nothing to do with an official release. As a part of the licensing project I will fight with my teeth to keep the skill ceiling at least, as big as it was in DF 2012. I would vote to leave the combat as it is but removing fizzles and surging. Then, very carefully, introduce more specs like destroyer/magekiller. The day that skill ceiling gets lowered and make the game easier for bad players, to "sustain that larger playerbase" (Bad players =/= new players) is the day I will leave the project... again (DFUW).
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Post by kimoshu on Jul 27, 2015 17:51:27 GMT
My suggestion is to simply add in heavy stamina damage to fall damage. To the tune of 1/2 of the health damage is my thinking.
That keeps in bunny hopping as a creative use of physics but removes it as long distance travel due to the heavy stamina loss.
-Andrew
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Post by kilset on Jul 30, 2015 19:41:39 GMT
My suggestion is to simply add in heavy stamina damage to fall damage. To the tune of 1/2 of the health damage is my thinking.
That keeps in bunny hopping as a creative use of physics but removes it as long distance travel due to the heavy stamina loss.
-Andrew There was already a punishment put in for bunnyhopping, taking 90 dmg per hop at ideal speeds.
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sad
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Post by sad on Aug 1, 2015 2:29:01 GMT
Naked guy in a robe killed 10 geared people? Really? Are you sure they were fighting back? How did those noobs get their gear, if they can't hit an AOE or wall of force or even shoot an arrow? As it was stated, bunnyhopping is not that hard to counter. And 10 geared vs 1 naked is quite an exaggeration. I wonder if this bunnyhopping hero has also ganked and looted those poor 10 guys...
And what's so bad in that? Games ARE designed for personal gratification. If you have the skills to hit-and-run an overwhelming enemy - why shouldn't you be able to do it? If games don't provide gratification, noone is going to play them.
And that's what I like about politics in DFO: if a clan steals a city at 5 am, from now on other clans will come to their sieges just to fuck with them. Yes, you can steal a city at 5 am, but you won't be able to hold it. We used to self-regulate that shit. To some extent, at least.
No worries, I'll cover your 300 in that case.
Anyway, here are a some reasons to leave bunnyhopping as it is:
1. Bunnyhopping is just another skill that is easy to learn and hard to master. Spend some time mastering it, and you'll become a better player. Not your play style? Noone is forcing you to do it. 95% of DFO players could not bunnyhop properly anyway, so it's not going to be a big issue. A lot of people found shooting from a bow to be quite hard: do we want to switch to targeted battle for those people, because it's going to make DFO more casual popular? Some destroyers consider magic to be an exploit - lets keep nerfing spells until all destroyers are happy?
2. It's a great example of risk vs reward. With certain skills, you are able to sacrifice your health for a speed boost. Bunnyhopping vets will easily outrun noobs, but at the same time they will instantly die from a well shot arrow or well cast magma storm.
3. It saves a lot of time during chases. I remember countless examples of zergs chasing vets for 15-45 min on the same mounts. Wasn't really fun for both parties. You're both moving at the same speed. If vet stops - he dies due to being heavily outnumbered. If zerg stops - they lose that precious loot they expected to get. It's a lose-lose situation: both parties could farm better gear in those 45 min, but noone is going to stop because they have already invested too much time in that chase. With bunnyhopping it often resolves much faster: either vet bunnyhops away, or one of the zerglings bunnyhops close enough to kill vet's bluetail (and probably die right after that, since he has little chance of surviving being far from his group and having 1 hp left).
Let's be honest - bunnyhopping was never really an issue in DFO. It's not like you would leave the city just to be killed by naked bunnyhopper right away. Not even 1% of newbies stopped playing DFO because of bunnyhoppers. DFO had plenty of things that hurt retention, but bunnyhopping was never one of them. Maybe it was even the opposite of that. True, you would encounter a bunnyhopper once in a while, and probably be mad about it. But also, once in a while, you would see a bunnyhopper die by the arrow of a 1-week player (maybe even yourself!).
haykand, you keep repeating that bunnyhopping hurts retention like it's a well-known fact. Do you have any proofs, or is it just an opinion?
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Post by bloodymurderer on Aug 4, 2015 5:47:17 GMT
My suggestion is to simply add in heavy stamina damage to fall damage. To the tune of 1/2 of the health damage is my thinking.
That keeps in bunny hopping as a creative use of physics but removes it as long distance travel due to the heavy stamina loss.
-Andrew Stamina always was valuable. I don't think you should nerf that aspect even more. I mean, with your idea, even the hop from the initial begone is too much. So imo, no matter what you do, you should not nerf stamina. The issues are the following. -Normal-speed mounts are redundant. -Bluetail runners are redundant if you move on the north/east side during a chase. -if you fix the physic for begone on the south/west side,Bluetails are gonna become redundant as-well. -Boats are too slow on the south/west side. What ever your solution is, do not touch stamina and try to make every point above become relevant no matter what the situation is. My suggestion to fix these issues: .Boats should become faster, but begoning should remain a tad-bit faster.(Water-hopping was too fast, but fun so we don't want to nerf that completely.) .Make begone work on all direction, but at the same time, nerf the speed-boost to compensate .Remove blue tails and replace them with a Tier-2 normal mount model. Tier 1 mounts are the same ol slow mounts. Tier 2 are re-skinned slow mounts with a passive ability to become as fast as a Blue tail only while out of combat. You're considered to be out of combat if you did not got hit after 3 seconds or so. .Alternative: Do not change begone at all, but fix the physic for begone/comehilther... and remove/raise the cap from fall-damage and if you go as low as 1 HP, you instantly lose 20-90 stamina or so.
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Post by haykand on Aug 4, 2015 15:35:30 GMT
Anyway, here are a some reasons to leave bunnyhopping as it is: 1. Bunnyhopping is just another skill that is easy to learn and hard to master.Spend some time mastering it, and you'll become a better player. Not your play style? Noone is forcing you to do it. 95% of DFO players could not bunnyhop properly anyway, so it's not going to be a big issue. haykand, you keep repeating that bunnyhopping hurts retention like it's a well-known fact. Do you have any proofs, or is it just an opinion? I totally agree with you, 95% of DFO players could not bunnyhop properly...., while on the current poll we see that 80% of the people in this forum voted to keep it. Do you know why? Because on this forum are mostly present the other 5% , they “uberskilled” (AKA “no lifers”, no offence meant). Should DFO be relaunched for (ONCE AGAIN) only a few blokes? Will it survive with only the 5% of the former DFO players? I am able to reply to this question, 80% of people that vote on this poll are unable, do you know why? Because only a few of us understand that we are brainstorming here in order to make DFO a successful game (or at least a game that survives more than a few months), while the other 80% thinks with their ego, thinks that the question was: “Do YOU like Bunnyjumping? were you good at it and did that make you ownz noobz and make you feel koool?” Bottom line: Bunnyhopping was an unintended broken game mechanic that was exploited by a few clever players; it makes no sense from a game point of view; it looks stupid, it gives an easy escape to people that try the impossible and, most importantly, nerfing it will not cause any uberplayer to ragequit. A mature game developer will think if the advantages of keeping this Roadrunner joke in game will outweight the damage it makes. BTW, DFO IS a niche game, but my idea of niche is 4-10 thousand people, not 200. Regards Haykand
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