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Post by assassin on Aug 5, 2015 14:16:05 GMT
My suggestion is to simply add in heavy stamina damage to fall damage. To the tune of 1/2 of the health damage is my thinking.
That keeps in bunny hopping as a creative use of physics but removes it as long distance travel due to the heavy stamina loss.
-Andrew I'm starting to not really like your idea's bud. I understand your view: - Fix Bugs, Glitches, and Exploits. - Make DF1 more of a sandbox. - Cater to a wider player base so YOU can make money for the server, team, and possible for your time and efforts. However the 3rd thing I mentioned above is where you are starting to lose my support: - You want to change too much too soon already and you don't even have it playable. - You risk splitting half of the old DFO player base before a launch just like DFUW did. - You insist on adding or taking away aspects of combat, where majority says LEAVE IT ALONE. - You and your group of devs you have ready for the project seem to be on the same wave-link as to how you want to make these changes, BUT that is not MAJORITY of the player base. - There are very easy thing you can plan to change that more than 90% of the DFO player base would accept and want changed: Skill-Up Times Increase, Fixed buggable mob spawns, Add an option to the hotbar to have sword and board on the same hotkey, etc. - You REALLY need to run polls before you make changes and state in the polls you need a certain % to go forward with implementation of the change. Example we are going to make bunny hop fuck your stam up so even if you bunny hop, now the guy on a mount can catch you because you will be stam drained. But in this poll we need 66% of you to agree with us before we make the change. - Than it (ALL NEW CHANGES) should only be in TRIAL mode for 2 weeks and than the community should re-vote whether to keep it in permanently. - And this community vote should only be done when you have a steady following and not on sites like this where people only come back to look at once every couple months. (I love this site, no offense intended) * I urge you Andrew to no NOT make hasty decisions with your small group of merry-men. There is a reason why we all like DF1 better than DFUW. Yes we want more sandbox and more stuff to do and yes we want some things fixed, but include us in it or you will not have the support going into this you would like and that support will than push even harder for the Emulator team by giving them the resources they need to accomplish a game we really want and not the modified version you and a few others want. ~ Andrew Parks
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Post by haykand on Aug 5, 2015 20:50:23 GMT
My suggestion is to simply add in heavy stamina damage to fall damage. To the tune of 1/2 of the health damage is my thinking.
That keeps in bunny hopping as a creative use of physics but removes it as long distance travel due to the heavy stamina loss.
-Andrew * I urge you Andrew to no NOT make hasty decisions with your small group of merry-men. There is a reason why we all like DF1 better than DFUW. Yes we want more sandbox and more stuff to do and yes we want some things fixed, but include us in it or you will not have the support going into this you would like and that support will than push even harder for the Emulator team by giving them the resources they need to accomplish a game we really want and not the modified version you and a few others want. ~ Andrew Parks Polls? What good are polls if: 1) there are 30 people taking part in it? 2) most of people in the poll can hardly post 1 line to justify their "choice" 2) due to the very limited amount of people participating in polls, some people can easily create more than one account to change the outcome? Aventurine used to listen to the crowd, never a good idea... open (meaningful) debate helps people with brain make good decisions. BTW I think (especially initially) very few changes are required Regards HayKand
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sad
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Post by sad on Aug 5, 2015 23:52:32 GMT
See, somehow you’re jumping to a conclusion that bunnyhopping causes 95% of DFO players to leave. I can't see where it comes from. That's a crappy manipulation.
So basically what I hear is "we are the chosen ones, our goal is sacred, anyone who has a different point of view is just an evil person who should be burned ignored". That's a great reasoning, but I think I already heard it somewhere...
Have even considered that maybe you’re the egoist here: you want to nerf bunnyhopping because you suck at it, but obviously you can’t use "I suck" as your motto. So you’re creating this whole idea that bunnyhopping causes people to leave DFO. Now this is something that people might follow, right? Maybe YOUR ego is the priority after all? Because I find it quite funny how you asked for real arguments in this thread, and then you completely ignored all of them and just continued spamming your mantra “bunnyhopping makes no sense and it causes players to leave!!11”.
So just to be clear, my goal is the same as yours: player retention. But, unlike you, I think that without bunnyhopping Darkfall would lose a substantial amount of players.
Because Darkfall is all about PvP. And what is the best source of your everyday PvP in a huge, but loosely populated world? Clan cities! I’m not talking about sieges, just regular clan city raids. Now the issue is that average size of a raid group is just 1-3 players. Which means they don’t stand a big chance against more or less populated city. Zerg always wins. If only there was something to balance things out, right? Well, guess what? Bunnyhopping solves that. It gives a chance for small groups to run away from zerg. Which means more city raids, more PvP, more happy players. Yes, from realistic point of view it does not make much sense: 2 vs 10 should always lose, no matter how skilled or geared they are. But i’m just not willing to sacrifice gameplay for realism.
I’m pretty sure that removing (or significantly nerfing) bunnyhopping is going to drastically hurt the amount of PvP, which is obviously going to hurt the game.
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Post by haykand on Aug 6, 2015 22:37:08 GMT
Have even considered that maybe you’re the egoist here: you want to nerf bunnyhopping because you suck at it, but obviously you can’t use "I suck" as your motto. So you’re creating this whole idea that bunnyhopping causes people to leave DFO. Now this is something that people might follow, right? Maybe YOUR ego is the priority after all? Because I find it quite funny how you asked for real arguments in this thread, and then you completely ignored all of them and just continued spamming your mantra “bunnyhopping makes no sense and it causes players to leave!!11”. So just to be clear, my goal is the same as yours: player retention. But, unlike you, I think that without bunnyhopping Darkfall would lose a substantial amount of players. Because Darkfall is all about PvP. And what is the best source of your everyday PvP in a huge, but loosely populated world? Clan cities! I’m not talking about sieges, just regular clan city raids. Now the issue is that average size of a raid group is just 1-3 players. Which means they don’t stand a big chance against more or less populated city. Zerg always wins. If only there was something to balance things out, right? Well, guess what? Bunnyhopping solves that. It gives a chance for small groups to run away from zerg. Which means more city raids, more PvP, more happy players. Yes, from realistic point of view it does not make much sense: 2 vs 10 should always lose, no matter how skilled or geared they are. But i’m just not willing to sacrifice gameplay for realism. I’m pretty sure that removing (or significantly nerfing) bunnyhopping is going to drastically hurt the amount of PvP, which is obviously going to hurt the game. You suggest that I am against Bunnyhopping because I am not good at it and then suggest that the "95%" who sucks at it are not necessarily against it, how is that? Any Logic would suggest that who sucks at Bunnyhopping would either vote against it or that they do not care either way certainly not to keep it. So the polls here clearly do not represent the old DFO playerbase. Period. Some people became good at it, and now they think it cannot be touched both for egoistic reasons and some fetishism that wants to copy paste the old DFO as if it was a sacred book. Obviously there are also people that were good at it but are intelligent enough to realize how unrealistic and potentially damaging it was for the game: Why need mounts if you have bunnyhopping? Why gear up if you can run away when things get heary? Not relaly difficult to grasp the impact on the economy (mounts, gear etc). How can some minor spells cost more in terms of reagents (and mana) than a "bunnyhopping spell" that makes you travel for miles in matter of seconds? It is not rocket science to understand that if you give little chance to the new and average players, you end up with no food at the base of the food chain because people quit.
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sad
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Post by sad on Aug 10, 2015 18:13:30 GMT
So anyone who does not agree with you is not intelligent enough. Try keeping on open mind for a second.
And yet everyone (even those good at BH) was using mounts... Have you even played DFO? Do you even know how bunnyhopping works?
So having a ~5% chance of running away means you will never gear up? Bullshit.
It feels like you and I played different Darkfalls. Or maybe you just haven't really played it?
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Post by copperfield on Aug 10, 2015 22:45:58 GMT
i never understood why people hated bunnyhopping so much..
It was the only way to not get zerged.. and even then you didnt have 100% escape
Bunnyhopping was RISK vs REWARD with equally skilled players
You either got away or you got sniped by a bolt or aoe r90 spell
When i was a noob in darkfall i wanted to learn bunnyhopping... i took a robe a BB and regs and did some practcise for 1 week
If anyone wants to explain why they hate bunnyhopping so much please i wanne debat it
The light battlespiking tho.. was a different story
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Post by bloodymurderer on Aug 11, 2015 7:17:03 GMT
i never understood why people hated bunnyhopping so much.. It was the only way to not get zerged.. and even then you didnt have 100% escape Bunnyhopping was RISK vs REWARD with equally skilled players You either got away or you got sniped by a bolt or aoe r90 spell When i was a noob in darkfall i wanted to learn bunnyhopping... i took a robe a BB and regs and did some practcise for 1 week If anyone wants to explain why they hate bunnyhopping so much please i wanne debat it The light battlespiking tho.. was a different story I was good at it, but we need a balance for some quality of life for the noobs and just balance for the pro's as-well. For the pro's when Battle-spike got in the mix and it became popular, it wasn't fun no more to go for the sticky back when you know damn-well that your opponent is just gonna use a spike to get off easily. Spike-hopping got 0 cooldown and next to 0 fall damage. It's like Evade at 0 cooldown. You think that's balanced? I think not. You can no longer punish your opponent with a good sticky-back. I know players in my clan who had to use a script just to do it. To me, it was super easy to perform without a script. When you learn how to Battle-spike-hop, Shrapnel becomes obsolete since the casting time takes way too long in comparison. Ask yourself, do you really want a 0 cooldown on Evade that cost 0 stats? For the noob, being unable to escape because you're not good at bunny hopping can simply make them quit. If you play DFO, even if you're part of a zerg, you must learn how to bunny hop or you will get left behind and die. That's a must. A slow mount is obsolete if you want to go faster. Your BTR is gonna get killed if you keep on going north or east. Even if you run south or West, you're still in danger and you need to move up on hills or bumps to out-run the bunny hoppers. If it dies and you can't bunny hop, you're done. If you farm and you can't bunny hop, you're always gonna die no-matter what even if you spot the enemy super far away. Me, i just dislike Battle-spike-hop because it's free based on cooldown and there's next to no counter against it when a pro use it right. It's a free get-out-of-sticky-back card. I dislike the way Begone works because it only really works in 2 sides. So while i want it to work on all sides equally, i don't want to buff it. So i just think we need to slow the speed boost of begone before we move-on to that. Here, i speak for the noobs. First, i want slow mounts to gain a based speed-boost. They were super ultra slow. I want slow mounts to gain the ability to sprint so that they may become faster than they are. Sprint should take-away a lot of stamina so it should not be a good idea to do it during combat, but good to do so only to run-away from a fight entirely: only useful for those terrible at bunny-hopping. This should not apply for Battle-horn: they're supposed to be strong and slow so they're fine.
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Post by copperfield on Aug 11, 2015 9:37:01 GMT
so bascily you think that a mount is complete useless while bunnyhopping is in place..
Lets look @ the factor of mounting away then.. if there was no bunnyhoppping
a: while being on a mount and running you cant do shit. you have no range combat which makes you even more easy target to take out
b: mounting up takes time and has a slower turning ratio. again easier to hit
I agree with your statement that you needed to learn bunnyhopping but this really dont matter if your playing darkfall..
A noob simply cant fight for lets say 5 till 10 month.. there are serveral factors in place how to learn to fight.. which comes to the same conclusion or statement
********* I am a noob but im willing to learn the game due to practise even if it takes weeks of duelling
*********
I am a noob but i cant stand the facts that im being killed all the time by vets in darkfall and i quit
*********
Weither or not you can bunnyhop and/or fight in df1.. these 2 types noobs are complete different. the second noob will never stick to the game because he is unwilling to learn.. however the first noob is willing to learn and might enjoy the game with practise..
Darkfall is no easy mode we all know that.. and is not for everyone.. Av knew that.. and managed to make the skillceiling alot less.. which turned out to be UW.. look how that packed out?
You ask how you wanne make darkfall 1 more populair? Adress the people who are playing CS:GO // unreal tournament // or any other FPS game..
Let the journey from being a noob in df1 to meta pvp in df1 alot faster.. and you will have a increase of population
Edit: we are talking about bunnyhopping not battlespiking
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Post by bloodymurderer on Aug 13, 2015 4:26:19 GMT
I thought about it and fuck it, let's screw all that newb shit.
The more i talk about it, the more i realize how i might screw things up with my idea's. We should never think about the newb's when it's about balance and i hate to take DF UW as an example.
I just want begone to work on all direction with a compromise and i want B-spike hopping removed, but wait! i want B-spike hopping to become a spell with an icon. The time to cast it should be the same, but the cooldown, a lot longer.
For the newb's, i still think we must find a way to protect them. We can have a safe newb Island. Basically a huge safezone with the option to recall there when when ever we want, but not after a certain amount of in-game hours. Anywhere above 24-75 hours should be fine. If a newb gets killed in the open world and feels like rage-quitting, he will still have the option to move back in that island while wolves like us will chose to play in the open world at all time. In that island, everything should be nerfed down. Skill-gain, loot drop..., but not too much, just enough to encourage everyone who feel ready to hop in the open world.
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Post by haykand on Aug 13, 2015 8:41:15 GMT
I thought about it and fuck it, let's screw all that newb shit. The more i talk about it, the more i realize how i might screw things up with my idea's. We should never think about the newb's when it's about balance and i hate to take DF UW as an example. I just want begone to work on all direction with a compromise and i want B-spike hopping removed, but wait! i want B-spike hopping to become a spell with an icon. The time to cast it should be the same, but the cooldown, a lot longer. For the newb's, i still think we must find a way to protect them. We can have a safe newb Island. Basically a huge safezone with the option to recall there when when ever we want, but not after a certain amount of in-game hours. Anywhere above 24-75 hours should be fine. If a newb gets killed in the open world and feels like rage-quitting, he will still have the option to move back in that island while wolves like us will chose to play in the open world at all time. In that island, everything should be nerfed down. Skill-gain, loot drop..., but not too much, just enough to encourage everyone who feel ready to hop in the open world. It is not "for the newbs", as we all agreed that (more or less) 95% of former DFo players could not properly bunnyhop; many of them were never able to learn it properly, while many others REFUSED to learn this ridiculous, nonsensical exploit. It makes no sense from a game point of view (might make more sense in Superman Online, Marvel Comics), economy point of view etc. many of ones who stick to it are, IMO, narrow-minded and self serving people who cannot see further than their cravings for easy victories and, especially, easy RUNNING AWAY. Are you good at PVP? Then you do NOT need bunnyhopping to RUN away like a rocket. But I guess you cannot understand that without a healthy populaiton there will be noone to jump on (and then bunnyhop away). You seem like those fishermen that fail to understand the concept or managed fishing and want to fill up their nets as much as they can, only to end up with nothing to fish a few years down the line. Regards HayKand
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